Speaker 1 0:41

this one . Yes , hello , hello , everybody , we are live with one more Beauty of Breathing episode . I want to welcome somebody who became a dear friend of mine , Dr Josh Madison . I'm so excited to have you with us on Beauty of Breathing this time instead of every circle . Welcome to our stage . How are you today ?

Speaker 2 1:04

Oh , I'm good Thanks for having me . I appreciate it .

Speaker 1 1:07

Of course . Today our topic is lack of oxygenation in brain development and function . We're also going to be live on Instagram , so if you're listening to this on Instagram , feel free to send us some messages . I'll be looking

Introduction to Dr. Josh Madison

Speaker 1 1:23

at both to make sure that we answer all of your questions . I'm going to go ahead and introduce Dr Josh to you guys . Dr Josh first earned his undergraduate degree in exercise science from the University of Northern Iowa , before pursuing his doctor of chiropractic at Palmer College of Chiropractic . Dedicated to expanding his expertise , he studied neurodevelopmental delays at the Carrick Institute of Clinical Neuroscience and Rehabilitation and completed functional neurology seminars

Oxygenation and Brain Development Explained

Speaker 1 1:53

accredited by the National University of Health Sciences . Dr Josh is also a fellow of the International Board of Functional Neurologists , bringing a wealth of knowledge and experience to his practice . Ta-da .

Speaker 2 2:07

Well welcome .

Speaker 1 2:09

If you can start by telling everybody where you're located , how many locations you have , where can they find you guys ?

Speaker 2 2:15

Yep , so we are located in Des Moines . Iowa is our main office , on the west side of Des Moines , a town called Waukee , and then we just opened an office . So that practice has been there about a little over eight years now . It's our biggest practice . We have eight or nine different providers in that office and then our Minnesota office opened up about a month and a half ago , and about a month ago a month and a half ago , something like that .

Speaker 2 2:43

And they're up and running and doing really well . And then we are opening a office in Denver this summer .

Speaker 1 2:50

June , July timeframe .

Speaker 2 2:54

So yeah , so then maybe more to come , we'll see how those go . And yeah , you can find us on social media pretty much anywhere . If you just search my name , you'll we'll pop up , so yeah .

Speaker 1 3:02

This is wonderful . Let's start with our first question . Can you explain the connection between oxygenation and brain development ?

Speaker 2 3:12

Yeah , so really it comes down to these little cells in our brain and these little aspects of those called the mitochondria . So our mitochondria are what produce energy for our brain , for anything to develop , for our brain to develop . So for our brain to develop , for neural connections to happen , we have to have good function of those mitochondria . And so for that to happen , we need oxygen . Number one , number two we need ATP production and we'd stimulate the brain to grow and develop . So these mitochondria are really oxygen dependent . So we , for us to produce ATP , we have to have oxygen .

Speaker 2 3:47

And when we see a lack of neurological development , what we find typically is that those mitochondria aren't producing enough energy for these neurological systems to all start to develop . And that's why we see , you know , like when we see kids that have autism or ADHD or dyslexia , all these things that should develop really early on in life aren't developed at all . Like they have retained primitive reflexes that should have been gone in the first year of life . Their balance centers aren't integrated and all the reflexes associated with their balance centers aren't integrated . Their eyes aren't tracking well and integrated well , and the very first thing that we do in our office is we use lasers to get

Understanding Retained Primitive Reflexes

Speaker 2 4:23

more energy or get those mitochondria to get up regulated . We give them oxygen to make sure there's enough oxygen there for that to happen , and then we start stimulating the brain and that's how we start changing these kids . And yeah , oxygen is an essential function of that and also making sure that we have the right distribution of oxygen to CO2 , which I know you guys obviously know a lot about ?

Speaker 1 4:45

Yes , and I love that you brought that up , because a lot of people are not aware of how do you get more oxygen . We tend to think that you need to breathe more to get more oxygen , but I learned this from Roger Price , who is the breathing guru from australia , and he says that there's 21 percent of oxygen in the air . We only need five percent to saturate our whole body . So literally , even if you go even a mouth breath , you're still going to have enough oxygen to saturate your whole body . But why are we not getting enough oxygen ? It's because of co2 , like you were saying Breathing it off too much .

Speaker 1 5:26

Yeah , so we keep the CO2 in our lungs . We calculate it by CO2 pressure , we measure by CO2 pressure . So the slower you breathe in and you guys listening just think about this the slower you breathe in , the slower you breathe out , you're allowing more time for your body to hold that oxygen , or the CO2 , in your lungs . The more CO2 you're able to hold in your lungs , the more oxygen is going to be released by hemoglobin into your organs and your muscles . Like that , you are healthier . So these moves hand in hand . That is why it's important for us to talk to other professionals to see how can we work together to talk to other professionals to see how can we work together , and I often just explain that to even parents of like .

Speaker 2 6:11

You have to have CO2 like on your red blood cells to release that oxygen to your body and if not , you're going to have oxygen deprivation .

Speaker 1 6:17

So what are some signs ? You mentioned reflex integration . I love this talk . I know we've talked a little bit about in our last talk , but can you tell the listeners right now what are some few things that are very common that you see in your practice , or things that parents at home could check on their kids to see if maybe they have a reflex integration issue ?

Speaker 2 6:41

Yeah , yep , so I wrote a book on this as well . It's called Limitless . You can look that up no-transcript . Central nervous system maturation or development , which what that means is that they're going to have retention of a lot of these primitive reflexes that should have gone away early but because their system hasn't matured they're still there . So , like , for example , an asymmetrical tonic neck reflex , it should go away right around six to eight months of life .

Speaker 2 7:34

Many , many , many kids have reading issues and learning issues . They'll have that retained . Everybody that has pretty much autism , adhd , they're going to have that reflex retained and it plays a lot in the development of our balance centers , a lot in development of our eyes , our ability to track our eyes appropriately . So that's why it plays into reading issues . But , um , another really common , like a moral or a startle reflex that you know when you're holding a baby and you kind of drop quickly and their arms come out . A lot of kids don't get rid of that and they'll have chronic anxiety . They'll be stuck in a fight or flight response and then , from your guys aside , now they're breathing a lot more often , a lot faster than they should be , and they're again . They're going to be getting lack of oxygenation there um and uh , initially stuck in a chronic fight or flight state um a symmetrical tonic neck reflex .

Speaker 2 8:22

Most common symptoms of that is they can't converge and diverge their eyes , they they don't develop their low back muscles , they can't sit up straight , they have really poor posture and they can't sit for long periods of time without constantly fidgeting and moving . They're usually really poor , messy eaters . Handwriting is usually pretty poor . Reading is really challenging . So these early infantile reflexes if there's a kid struggling , I can almost guarantee there's something there . And the more reflexes that there's a kid struggling , I can almost guarantee there's something there . And the more reflexes that are there usually the more severe the case .

Speaker 2 8:50

So kid that might have just a minor reading issue . Maybe they have one or two kid that has severe non-verbal autism . They're gonna have 8 , 10 , 15 of these that didn't develop appropriately .

Speaker 1 9:01

And , as a parent , how do you know where to start , because there are usually so many professionals that these patients need to see ? Um , let's say we have a young patient who's three years old and they are mouth breathing and they do have some of these symptoms of retained reflexes . What do you usually recommend for the parent ? Uh , where to start ?

Speaker 2 9:24

yeah , um , I have have courses on , you know , working on these . The problem is it's not widely known . You know , I'm in it's because , like , I had a neurologist in the office with this kid yesterday and I learned it the same way he did . I learned it that you know . Like I learned , oh , these reflexes are there when you're born . They go away , like that's what I learned in school and that's what everyone learns in school , and but it's not the case and the uh , and so , like , it's always interesting talking with those types of professionals that that's their job is to assess the neurology right and , or a pediatrician , they bring their kid in or a you know , uh , some other form of doctor . I say , like , how did you learn this ? And they go yeah , I , they say the exact same thing every single time . I just learned they go away until I started digging into it more and researching it more and and and now the nice thing is there's so much research coming out on them and and the effects that they're having on kids with hd and autism and dyslexia and learning issues , and so , um , that that's .

Speaker 2 10:25

The problem is that it's just not widely known . There's , you know , some groups of OTs that work on them . But that's really a big problem . So I made a course it's like a seven hour course for parents . It can be found at limitlessfoundationco

Normal Infant Development Milestones

Speaker 2 10:39

or CO and they can . There's a parent's course that walks them through how to check all these reflexes , what exercises to do for them to make sure that they're developing optimally . And I even made a small course for , like , what motor development should look like in the first year of life , because a lot of times new parents don't really know like , hey , my kid's supposed to roll at four to five months , they're supposed to be army crawling five to six months . Like , and if they're not hitting those motor milestones , what can they do at home to reinforce that development , so that way these reflexes start maturing and developing appropriately .

Speaker 1 11:12

How about those babies that come out of the womb and all of a sudden they have their neck way up ? And all the parents . I see so many posts of parents going oh my God , my kid's so strong , my child is yeah . Yep , they shouldn't be that strong when Parents going oh , my kid's so strong .

Speaker 2 11:27

My child is yeah , Yep , there's . They shouldn't be that strong when they're born , like they shouldn't have that much excess tone when they're born . And you know that can , as you know that can be tongue ties , that can be . You know lip ties , that can be that type of thing , but also it can be they had an injury to the upper cervical spine . Now they're .

Speaker 2 11:43

They're just in a fight or flight response and they're creating that extension just to try to get comfortable . You know they shouldn't be really relaxed , not floppy , but they should . You know they should have tone when they're born , but it should be more flexor tone than anything where they're pulled forward and then , as what happens is so like that's why when an infant comes out , their legs are contracted , their arms are contracted , their whole body's forward , like this , but it's because their frontal lobes haven't developed yet . So as those start to mature , now we start shutting down that flexor muscle tone . They start extending and then that's when they start getting into tummy time and they can really start to create that extension . And that's what you're seeing is their midline cerebellum developing but then that's firing up into their frontal lobes and their frontal lobes are coming down and shutting down this flexor muscle tone .

Speaker 1 12:27

One thing that my child had was well , neither of my kids like tummy time . I know that that's a sign of something . And another thing that we noticed with my son his fists were always closed . Does that indicate anything ?

Speaker 2 12:40

That's front . Well , it depends . It was his finger thumbs tucked in .

Speaker 2 12:44

I think they were out for here , maybe , but he always so if they're out , that could be a palmar grasp reflex that isn't quite developing the way it should and they're not able to open their hands and use their hands as efficiently . So there are things that can be , but also maybe nothing you know . So it depends on once , when you assess them and assess all these different Neurological systems and all these different reflexes , like if there's nothing there , he might just be preferring that , but also if there is something there that could be a reason why .

Speaker 1 13:15

Yeah , I noticed , as you said , that maybe you know , if they have more tension in their body they might be more tight than open like that .

Speaker 2 13:24

That's so interesting and that's , you know , like , the really important thing when it comes to reflexes is these early stages , like they need to be able to move their head through full ranges of motion to develop a lot of these reflexes that should start developing , uh , right after they're born . Like that's how we develop our brain is , we're born with a set of reflexes that stimulates growth of our brain and if we can move , we can't stimulate those reflexes , so we can't stimulate normal brain growth and development . So that's a really big reason why it's important to have someone that knows how to assess range of motion in a child , an infant , for example . They should be able to turn their head past their shoulder at birth . A lot of times I'll look at a kid and they literally can't turn their head past like 20 degrees and that's abnormal .

Speaker 2 14:13

They need to be able to move their head to develop a lot of these motor systems . So that's a kind of important piece there . A lot of times it's just birth .

Speaker 1 14:17

You know , stress during birth and pulling and rotating and traumatic births will do that behaviors that are expected on a baby that may have some of these issues lack of oxygenation in the brain or some reflexes that are not integrated . Because , as moms , first of all , I think it's very hard for us to recognize these things in our children , because I always say that we're blind to our own children's things and I have missed so many things in my children guys blind to our own children's things , and I have missed so many things in my my children guys that I know , but I've missed it because I'm the mom . Both of my kids had torticollis and I didn't see it . But what are some behaviors as a baby ? Because we talk about witching hour or colic , or these babies that are just super fussy , or other babies that just sleep all the time what are some signs that I should be looking , looking , what is normal development for a baby and behavior compared to ?

Speaker 2 15:12

maybe I need to look a little bit further , uh , and reach out to a professional yeah , yeah , so really early on , right , they are primarily sleeping , but they should be feeding normally , like you should . They should be feeding you every three , four hours , like they . It shouldn't be be a like , it shouldn't be hard , it should be easy . They should be able breastfeed really easy . It shouldn't be complicated , right , like you know , if they can't feed , there's maybe there's some type , there's restrictions there . Maybe they just can't turn their head that direction . Or if they're feeding on one side and not the other side , like so if a mother's getting engorged on one side and one side isn't producing milk .

Speaker 2 15:47

Well , it's because they're feeding on that side all the time and they can't feed on the other side . Well , maybe they just can't turn their head that direction and so always looking out for that and you know , obviously there's different positioning to be able to help them with that . But that's just a compensation , for the child can't turn their head . If you fix their head movement and their alignment of their neck and get their head moving appropriately , well , now they can feed on both sides . Now they can develop their range of motion , both directions , which is very important for neurological development . Um , the uh . And as they get a little bit older , you know , like we want to look for , uh , flat spots on their head . We want to look for , uh , cranial distortions like , for example , if they have a flat spot , if their heads always turn one direction , they have a flat spot that tells us they're not moving their head to four inch motion and developing their cranium . If they have a band right across the back of their head , we know they're on their back too much . You know , especially like right in the middle , they can't turn their head to four inches of motion and they're just getting stuck in one plane of motion . So those are just really easy things to look for . If they don't like tummy time as they start getting into that four month mark like they should be starting to really like tummy time and spending extended periods of time on their tummy they should be able to sleep on their tummy . You know they should be able to lay there with their head turned and sleep really well , and usually they sleep better on their tummy , to be honest , because they're not like startling themselves

Autism, Developmental Delays and Treatment

Speaker 2 17:09

awake when you go to put them down . So just , uh , looking for those types of things , anything out of the ordinary . And then , once you get into those four months , into that through that first year , there's , I'm gonna say , pretty normal standards for motor milestones and we want to make sure they're hitting those and the new recommendations , like , are kind of garbage , to be honest . But like I'll give you a pretty general one . You know they should be rolling right around that four to five months marks . They should be army crawling right around five to six . They maybe even into seven months . They should be cross-crawling right around seven to eight months , like up on their hands and knees cross-crawling , okay , and then they should crawl all the way to pretty much their first birthday .

Speaker 2 18:01

If they crawl , if they walk early at like nine and a half , 10 months , that's usually because they didn't develop an asymmetrical tonic neck reflex appropriately and they couldn't create a cross-crawl pattern efficiently . So they stand up and walk because it becomes more efficient . Or if they're after 14 months , to me those are red flags of lack of development of primitive reflexes . Where you know , this current recommendation is oh , they don't have to walk , they don't have to crawl at all . Number one . And secondly , they don't have to walk till they're 18 months . And to me we just missed out on six months of normal development . And and if they didn't crawl at all , later in life they are . I can , every time I do a history on a kid that has behavioral dysregulation or learning issues , they either didn't army crawl or they didn't crawl . So that's the and again , from a research standpoint , those things are also well known .

Speaker 1 18:45

So I love that you said that , because my kids had so many issues . They crawled with one knee only . Both of them did and as a parent I thought was hilarious . I remember recording them and calling even Zoya as a pop and rock crawl because she would crawl , like that's , only on one knee and I had no idea as a parent that that was something I needed to look at to the head to do with their development . So many of these children um are not going through the , the developmental milestones now that they change . You mentioned , they change the , what we're looking at and we're not happy with that . However , I listened to recently that I thought was a very interesting piece of information that the way that your teeth come in also have a lot to do with that type of development . So , for example , if the children do not have all the way their second molars , they're not really expected to be walking . Yet . There's something else .

Speaker 2 19:54

That's interesting .

Speaker 1 19:55

I know right , I had no idea . I heard this from Dr Bahar . It's Miley Bahar . She's incredible . And also something with their front teeth in terms of crawling . There are certain teeth that come in that actually are going to help . I don't know much about it . We need to look at it , but I heard this .

Speaker 2 20:13

the other day . That's super interesting .

Speaker 1 20:14

So interesting . Now , what are some common ? Go ahead .

Speaker 2 20:18

Well , just going back to like even you talking about your own kids there . Well , like , for example , if they have torticollis , they can't turn their head in one direction . So they're only going to develop an asymmetrical tonic neck reflex on one side , and appropriately , and what you'll see is an abnormal crawling pattern like that . So just fyi there , if your kid's dragging a leg or bringing a leg around , and it's usually because they only were able to turn their head one direction earlier than that . So therefore they only developed those reflexes appropriately on one side and motor skills on one side appropriately .

Speaker 1 20:48

Where were you when I needed you ?

Speaker 2 20:52

I was probably here , just not as well known .

Speaker 1 20:57

What are some common neurodevelopmental delays associated with lack of oxygenation ?

Speaker 2 21:03

It could be anything .

Speaker 2 21:04

Depends on what area of the brain is most metabolically active at that time . So like , let's say , you had lack of oxygenation earlier on . There's systems that develop much earlier on than other ones and then if you have lack of oxygenation later on , you know it depends on where is the blood flow going at that time , so what areas of the brain are trying to develop at that time . That's what we call the most metabolically active areas of the brain . So whatever is supposed to be developing at a time is what's going to be affected the most , because it's not going to have the resources to develop or mature . So really depends on your timeline , really depends on all that type of stuff . But whatever is supposed to be developing at that point and where most of the blood flow is going at that point is what's going to be affected flow is going at that point is what's going to be affected .

Speaker 1 21:52

Okay , I just saw another report yesterday about people who are overweight . Uh , have twice as likely of a chance of having a child with autism . I thought like obese people , and not only the mom , but also the dad yeah and they compare that to a man being 50 or older . As a father that he goes up maybe five percent , but if they're overweight it's like 50 chance . What do you think about that ?

Speaker 2 22:18

yeah , yeah , the uh , um , you know we're . I think we're starting to find out more and more and more and more that , like , for example , autism develops prior to even conception . Like , like you know that sounds weird , but like , the health of the , the , the parents , is very , very important because , like , for example , if the mother's overweight , well maybe she has Hashimoto's thyroiditis .

Speaker 2 22:42

Those antibodies for against the thyroid are known to cross-react with fetal brain tissue so now that the brain of the infant gets , it's getting attacked as it's trying to develop , like that's a known , a well-known factor . Um , I have a limousine foundation . I have a whole bunch of research articles , um , on , uh , autism and just a whole bunch of stuff . I have like thousands of research articles in there , but there's a section on autism and there's a lot of these types of studies that are large , meta analysis that look at the risk factors associated with autism . And , yes , being overweight is one of the biggest ones .

Speaker 2 23:17

The health of the parent , having autoimmunity prior to conception is a big deal .

Speaker 2 23:23

The age of the parents the older they are , the more the higher the likelihood , yeah , and also even the health of the father .

Speaker 2 23:31

So the and then , on top of that , you know you get into the during actual pregnancy illnesses , different vaccinations during those times , medication use , they you can have reactions to and those can be complicating factors . So especially illnesses illness is a big thing , like where if someone gets really sick they can trigger a reactivity against the infant's brain neurological tissue . So , yeah , the more and more and more the research is showing that the health of the parent is one of the biggest factors . So , like , if someone's looking to become pregnant . Yeah , these are things that they want to make sure are , you know , they're not obese , they're not overweight , their thyroid is healthier , they don't have autoimmune issues going on and they're just overall they're healthy . Because that's the is probably the biggest risk factor because that those things , you know , don't think about them , but they can affect that fetus's development and a lot of these , a lot of these things that we're seeing . We know that a lot of these aspects develop inside the womb even .

Speaker 1 24:39

So what kind of results do you see with patients with autism or Asperger's in your practice ? What do you usually see with the treatment that you offer ?

Speaker 2 24:50

Yeah . So when it comes to like autism , nonverbal autism , um , a high percentage of them sort of talk after the first or second intensive . That's pretty normal . Um , the , the , and we're getting better and better and new every every year . We just get better and better results . But the ? Um , the big , first , biggest things that we noticed on literally almost every single one of them is they're calmer .

Speaker 2 25:15

Like I'm going to do a video where and I haven't done one of these yet , just because it's it's hard to figure out how to do it appropriately . But , like you know , a lot of times these kids come in and they're just screaming their face off as soon as you walk in the room they're screaming and they're echolalic and they can't control it . They're basically their basal ganglia is running rampant and they just randomly start screaming and blurting stuff out and they truly can't control it , they can't stop it . So it's not like they're like angry at you , it's just that's just the way their brain is . And uh , but usually third day we can get them to where they're not doing that anymore .

Speaker 2 25:48

We could pretty much do whatever we want with them . So , like I have a kid that was here a couple uh , he's here for his second week of his intensive . This week he's literally a new kid , like the parents are , like he is so calm , like he's not screaming all the time he's , and that took us three days to get to . But we have the right lasers to do that . Like violent lasers , calm the brain down .

Speaker 2 26:08

And so we can usually get them calm . We can usually start getting eye contact to start to occur in that first week , starting to interact differently and starting to create social interaction . Then they start looking at the parent's face , start mimicking things . Then that's how that whole , that's the normal developmental sequence . And yeah , I mean we have kids come back for their second or third intensive all the time that were non-verbal and now they're speaking or they're reading books or they're doing XYZ . There's so much inside of these kids that never gets to be seen because they can't express it , because their motor systems aren't developed well enough for them to express it , or they don't feel their body well enough for them to express things . Um , or even , a lot of times , even know they have a body , which is a real thought . But , um , yeah , it's pretty cool the the . It's really cool the changes that we get to see on a daily basis just by working on neurological development . It's definitely a process and it's , you guys show , I'm always the one crying .

Speaker 1 27:18

I had a patient today from Sweden and the mom cried when she was telling me this . She's , like you know , the child with the behavior , and she said I don't know what else to do . However , she noticed that even though he has the the behavior issues , he's always angry . You know he's um , I think he's about five years old whenever they go to the beach , they have a beach place , that he doesn't have any of the symptoms over there , that he's happy , that he's calm . So what are some things that you'd be looking at in someone's home maybe , or environment that could be increasing these symptoms ?

Speaker 2 27:57

yeah for sure . Like , for example , in that type of case he could have pans or pandas which if they have mold in their house that'll trigger more neural inflammation , or maybe emfs emfs been shown to create neural inflammation . So like 5g networks coming out and , um , you know , having a wi-fi router and like close their bedrooms or things like that . Like my whole house is hardwired , I don't have a single wi-fi router in here because my son has had pants from a mold toxicity and that triggers them , so we don't have that , um , but it's again , it's well known , like , it's well researched .

Speaker 2 28:30

These things

Environmental Factors and Brain Health

Speaker 2 28:30

create more inflammation . Um , diet diet could be a big thing too . Like you're close to the ocean , you're eating more , uh , omega rich foods . You're eating typically cleaner um . Where in the city you're eating more processed type of things , so that could be playing into it as well . Um , so , yeah , you're . That tells you what's causing .

Speaker 2 28:49

I mean , if we go one place and the kid's great , we go to another place and the kid is awful right , I shouldn't say awful , but having behavioral issues . That tells you there's something going on there . Like , for example , my son developed pans and we were in a house that ended up having a mold issue and we didn't know it at the time . Obviously it wouldn't have been there , but the uh , um , we moved out to our , our . We have a lake house about an hour away . We literally like we just got out and he all of his tics went away , all his behavioral stuff went away . He just brain started calming down . We would go back to his house as we're trying to move out of it for 10 minutes and all he would have started having tics . He would have big behavioral stuff .

Speaker 1 29:26

You know .

Speaker 2 29:26

It's like it was very obvious something in that house was setting him off , and you know . So figuring out what those things are is extremely important , because they're also just constantly reinflaming the brain .

Speaker 1 29:39

One of the things that I usually hear from the parents is this is a brand new home . How can I have mold in here ?

Speaker 2 29:46

Me and Dr Lauren have this game where we look at Zillow all the time because we just like looking at houses , but we send each other the moldiest houses we can find . We'll literally find multiple million dollar homes that they take the pictures of and the framing is covered in mold . There's little water sitting in the basement . On on the boards there's like . The floorboards are like the underneath of the . You know where you put your flooring down . The subfloor is covered in mold and these are multiple million dollar houses .

Speaker 1 30:16

They're put on Zillow . Yeah they put them on Zillow . It's like it's unreal . I don't get it .

Speaker 2 30:22

But people don't realize . Yes , I have a new house , but it doesn't mean it was built appropriately . And also , usually what they do is they put way too big of HVAC systems in the house so it creates moisture over the coils and then they get mold on the coils . Now there's blowing mold all over their house and they don't know it . That's one of the biggest , biggest causes of mold issues is your hvac system , um .

Speaker 2 30:43

So like we have in our hvac system I have um . It's called uh , ultraviolet , ultraviolet photocatalytic oxidation . So there's an ultraviolet light that sits right on top of my coils to kill mold and fungus and bacteria and viruses as air goes through there to keep those coils clean . Then I have what's called a heat recovery vent . Because what that does ?

Speaker 2 31:03

It cycles air throughout the house because as we build these houses really tight now they don't have that there's a moisture differential where if it's really hot outside and you have AC inside , the differential there creates moisture so you can get moisture in the walls just because you have a hot and a cold in between each other . So this helps cycle air . So it stays , just like if you have a kind of a house that's older . It leaks air . So they actually have a less likelihood of having a mold issue because they're cycling air more efficiently likelihood of having a mold issue because they're cycling airy more efficiently , um , which , from a energy standpoint , having a house that that does you know what mine does isn't nearly as efficient from an energy bill standpoint , but it's a lot healthier so those feature dishes that we can buy on amazon and we can set them around their house , is that accurate ?

Speaker 2 31:55

um , yes and no . I mean it'll show you like , hey , there's mold in here . It doesn't tell you if it's what type of mold you know , like it could just be your everyday , non-allergic , non-whatever mold , and there's thousands of different types of mold um , so it doesn't really necessarily tell you what um type . So , yeah , if do that , you're going to see mold in a lot of places .

Speaker 2 32:18

Right , but they can start giving you indications of , oh , there is mold in here and there's a lot of it and there's lots of different strains , and then you know you could always even have that tested too . But or you can have your old house tested . There's lots of different ways to have your house tested for that type of stuff .

Speaker 1 32:37

I know that we have so many more questions . We may have to do a different meeting for this , because we like to keep it at about 30 minutes . It's easy for people to listen . One last question from somebody who and it's a little bit off topic , but I'm going to ask since they're asking this live she has a three-year-old who suffered hypoxic event at birth , severe HIE , epilepsy , CP , retained reflexes , et cetera narrow palate , enlarged tonsils and adenoids . So we have your portion of info here Now . We have my portion of info here . Now we have my portion of info here . Trying to avoid the removal , what would you suggest ?

Speaker 2 33:24

So obviously fixing breathing , that is super important , but even just getting to breathe through a nose more consistently , you know mouth taping at night , trying to just constant reminders . But what I've found to help that out a lot is something called ewot , which is exercise with oxygen , if we can , um , which basically you , you fill a bag full of oxygen , um , and they , what happens ? They exercise during that and they breathe that bag , so you can basically breathe like 16 , 18 liters at a time , but they're , they're moving enough to produce enough CO2 to create um , basically fill all the capillary beds , but you'll it's interesting You'll see their tonsils reduce in size pretty quickly with that . And then we use lasers to get inflammation down in those tonsils as well , um , but , and then it makes it easier for them to breathe through their nose .

Speaker 2 34:11

You know they're able to like even . It's really interesting after like a week straight of doing ewot , they'll start breathing through their nose much more often , and it's likely just because inflammation is going down in there .

Speaker 2 34:22

So you'll start seeing their mouth being shut way more often , and that's one thing parents notice a lot and that kind of gets that ball rolling for them and gets them out of that stuck position so that they can , you know , move forward in other areas . But then on top of that , you know , know , lasers are really effective for CP . We use them all the time transcranially and to get more blood flow to the brain , and then rehabbing those primitive reflexes is the first place to start .

Speaker 1 34:48

The child's wearing a CPAP at night . I mean , you know the gold standard of sleep apnea on a child . It's removing tonsils and adenoids , especially adenoids . I always tell my patients that I'm a mom before I'm a therapist , so I'm never going to jump into surgery first . However , there are things that we can recommend to see if we can reduce this . This is incredible what you just mentioned . In my world , usually we recommend of course we talk about any dust . You know how to reduce the dust in the environment or improving air quality .

Speaker 2 35:22

Air doctors .

Speaker 1 35:25

And then we talk about eliminating dairy . That's inflammatory , it's going to swell up your terbals , make it harder to breathe , it's going to increase more mucus production , and then we go into gluten , sugar and processed foods . I know that in the United States it's almost impossible for us to be completely free of those things . However , if we're trying to avoid surgery , we're going to try everything that we can . Recently I had a patient do red light therapy on her tonsil area and she did notice a reduction in the size of the tonsils , which was incredible . So there are so many other things out there that we can see .

Speaker 1 36:01

Usually , how I draw my line is if this child has an airway that's 60% blocked or more . So I like to ask the ENT what is the percentage of obstruction ? And if it's 60% or more and they do have sleep apnea , I'd rather go ahead with the most drastic you know option to go ahead and get this child breathing and then everything else is going to help . However , you guys can hear this how we have so many options to try before we try surgery . So breathing is first .

Speaker 2 36:33

I will agree with with that and then we can work on everything else yeah , and to go off of that too , that sorry I don't make it longer , but those are very important aspects of our immune system , like very , very important , so if you can keep them at all costs , you're gonna be much healthier long term so look you know if you can figure out a way to get that opened up without having to do a surgery and keeping those things like God put them there for a reason .

Speaker 2 37:00

You didn't put them there to block your airway . So the looking at long term health , you know short term reward versus long term rewards Always measure that and see if you can do anything to prevent that , because we want those that are long term do anything to prevent that because we want those that are long-term and also palatal expansion .

Speaker 1 37:19

I think the only research out there really showing reduction of tonsils and adenoids is rapid palatal expansion , not slow . There are so many functional appliances out there or appliances that they move really slow . Those do not work as much as the rapid ones . But we do see even three-year-olds . There are some dentists , pediatric dentist in the united states that will go ahead and start call to expansion on little ones . Um , where can we take our families to get checked for the breathing at night ? I have mouth breathers and husband has to that's your field , that's not mine yeah , so how to myofunctional therapy ?

Speaker 1 37:54

we can start there and we can refer you . I always say the myofunctional therapy , we can start there and we can refer you . I always say the myofunctional therapists were the middle puzzle piece of the of the team , because I'm uh , uh , referring my patients to an ENT , to a chiropractor , to a dentist . So we have this , you know , team of providers who are going to help us treat our patients .

Speaker 1 38:11

So , yeah , to start with myofunctional therapy , and then we , and then we can better guide you to somebody else . All right , thank you so , so much . This has been incredible . I know you have answered many , many questions that parents have out there , and really quickly . Again , how can people reach out to you ? What is your Instagram account ?

Speaker 2 38:30

Yep , if you go to Dr Josh Madsen , you'll find me there . And on Facebook is Infinity Functional Neuro You'll you'll find me there . Um , and on Facebook is infinity functional neurology You'll find us there . Uh , and I have a YouTube channel that has a lot of our long form content . So , um , yeah , that's a . If you want to deep dive into a bunch of different stuff those are in parent testimonials and longer form content that's a great place for you .

Managing Enlarged Tonsils Without Surgery

Speaker 1 39:01

Awesome . Well , thank you so much . We're going to make sure that we add all of this in our show notes . Please , guys , if you're listening to this and enjoyed , share this with your friends . Send to other parents who you think that may benefit from this information . Thank you all for following the beauty of breathing and our accounts on Instagram , including my moves . We love you , guys . Thank you , have a wonderful day .

Speaker 2 39:17

See ya .